Possible changes to weapons and factions

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Darakhoranon
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Possible changes to weapons and factions

Post by Darakhoranon »

Before I start explaining my thoughts and ideas, I'd like to point out that this is mainly an effort to come up with possible improvements to the game, not really anything I'd consider to be "urgent" in any way.
With that out of the way, get ready for some rambling... ;)


Now, as we all know, there's little to no point in investing IP in more than a single weapon skill. That's good in a way, but it also feels (in my eyes, at least) a little like "min-maxing". After all, what's the "cost" of going for Kinetic instead of Energy? Sure, you can't salvage raids, but seriously, how often does an opportunity to do so really come up? So you "sacrifice" a decidedly minor option in order to get the same skill level with fewer IP.
On the other hand, if you explore derelicts, you'll often find them equipped with several different weapons - that's a nice touch for sure and certainly makes some sense logically (different kinds of weapons are supposedly better suited for different targets), but it lacks any connection to how WE know the world of CE works.

But how about this:
Certain ship types could be more vulnerable to a given weapon type (e.g. ships classified as "fighters" could be best fought with Kinetic weapons), translating into a SMALL damage bonus (similar to what targeting modules do). That would make equipping both Energy AND Kinetic weapons potentially useful, while not really penalizing anyone who doesn't do that. But "career combat pilots" might actually notice a (minor!) increase in their fighting power. It might also add diversity and tough choices (focus on one weapon type to get the strongest weapon or raise both to make use of this "vulnerability"), which would also be a good thing.


And then there are missiles. Sure, it's fun to sling the occasional missile at the enemy, but considering what the strong (read: actually useful) ones cost (in credits and invested IP) and how often they miss, that's not something anyone in his or her right mind will do regularly. Kinetic/Energy weapons are simply much more efficient.

So maybe something like this could work:
Instead of flinging as many missiles as one wants, one can only shoot up to 3 during any given combat (of course, the missiles would have to become decidedly more powerful with a much higher chance to hit). That would turn missiles from a fool's weapon into a kind of "emergency exit", possibly swinging a close fight in your favour.
Yes, quite a few enemies shoot missiles like there's no tomorrow, but that doesn't (necessarily) have to change - as far as I can see, apart from the limited number of shield recharges affecting both players and NPCs, there are differences between what WE and "they" can do anyway.


Last but not least, factions (combat factions specifically). As Coops already explained in another thread, GalFed/Confed are mainly "background noise" on purpose. While that's certainly nice from a player's point of view (less chance to screw things up) and would be almost impossible to change without seriously annoying a lot of people, it DOES rub me the wrong way, mainly because of the missed potential for more immersion.

One possible "solution" to this:
Instead of suddenly restricted access to something due to one's standing with the different factions gained before an assumed change, ENHANCED access to some additional toys might work. Similar to how access to most stuff in VP works (i.e. you can't enter certain shops without first gaining a certain standing), new/additional shops could offer something for those with the necessary rank/standing in a given combat faction, e.g. "GalFed Light Laser; Energy Skill 70; dmg 135-215; energy needed 300; rank needed: Petty Officer" available in addition to "Functioning GS-4 Beam Laser; Energy Skill 75; dmg 133-209; energy needed 335; lvl 12".
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Jager 602
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Re: Possible changes to weapons and factions

Post by Jager 602 »

Equipping 2 weapons would be something for higher level players, right? Or if you bought one of the better bio-engines from the start, maybe; it's hard to equip two weapons just because of the power required, not to mention the ip required. I get your feeling about min-maxing- what if we did an associated bonus instead? We're in starships, and while we have 1 or 2 large antiship weapons, it makes sense that we also have lots of small point defense weapons, decoys, etc., little tiny things that use little power but can't damage another ship directly. What if having skill points in each weapon class gave an associated bonus in combat? You are better trained in all the little subsystems and therefore you get to spend more time focusing on using your main weapon, so you get that little bump to damage as a result. The more points you throw into those other skills, the better the bonus gets, maybe?

I hate getting hit with SP missiles. I haven't used any back, though. you're right, it's too expensive for me right now to use missiles; maybe just make them a little cheaper?

I like your idea of access to slick faction weaponry if you're on good terms with them. Doesn't just have to be a weapon, maybe the type of item for the faction bonus could differ for the factions.
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siddharth
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Re: Possible changes to weapons and factions

Post by siddharth »

long time I also thought of such lines with wepon based on faction standing don't lock it with rank though .
Alliance , Con fed , Vp , Forge , Anval , Furnace also Galfed should have some wepon and different tech based on there science which they don't sell to other parties like vp stores sell targeting modules in there stores only.
for Wepons will like just one skill can equipt kin or energy based on what we like to equipt but enemy ship got different resistance to different wepon type so if you want tto shoot pirates you might be good to use Kin wepon types but if you want to take down A.I ship will like to equipt Energy based just for example different enemy got there strength and weakness for a given wepon types. same as above suggested in starting thread post.
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Darakhoranon
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Re: Possible changes to weapons and factions

Post by Darakhoranon »

As far as I understand you, siddarth, we actually seem to agree on the weapon/equipment part. My idea, after all, is to make GalFed and the other (combat) factions work exactly like VP - if you have a certain rank/standing with them, you get access to ADDITIONAL toys. In other words, all this would change would be ADDING things (i.e. you'd still have access to absolutely everything you do now).
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Hunbaba
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Re: Possible changes to weapons and factions

Post by Hunbaba »

There are no rank/standing restrictions on using VP equipment apart from standard skill/level/energy. There are no rank/standing restrictions even for buying VP weapons as there used to be.
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Akkamaddi
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Re: Possible changes to weapons and factions

Post by Akkamaddi »

Hunbaba wrote: There are no rank/standing restrictions even for buying VP weapons as there used to be.
Buying, no, but some stores will not let you in unless your standing is high enough. I can get into the engine and cargo stores, but I cannot get into the systems store yet.
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Re: Possible changes to weapons and factions

Post by pikolinianita »

I don't like idea of items restricted by rank. because you are able to use it gun, you kill some traders and you are too stupid to pull trigger again? Quite not natural for me.
On the other hand, I'd like limits by certificates. I mean when I hit rank I get Certificate (or Schematics, like O2 bottles from derelict faction now),
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Darakhoranon
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Re: Possible changes to weapons and factions

Post by Darakhoranon »

Akkamaddi wrote:
Hunbaba wrote: There are no rank/standing restrictions even for buying VP weapons as there used to be.
Buying, no, but some stores will not let you in unless your standing is high enough. I can get into the engine and cargo stores, but I cannot get into the systems store yet.
Exactly. You still have to have a certain standing (i.e. rank) in order to ENTER some stores. If you have the rank, you have access to the equipment they sell. If you don't have the rank...
So what would change if some GalFed/Confed/Alliance/Pirate stores were added which sold SLIGHTLY better versions of already existing equipment (e.g. a GalFed gun doing a few points of damage more than a "normal" gun of the same type)? Yes, you'd potentially lose access to these stores if you flew around randomly shooting everything, but you're already going to be in trouble if you do that now. And if shooting a single trader would get you kicked out, shooting a pirate or two would let you get in again, too...
pikolinianita wrote:I don't like idea of items restricted by rank. because you are able to use it gun, you kill some traders and you are too stupid to pull trigger again? Quite not natural for me.
On the other hand, I'd like limits by certificates. I mean when I hit rank I get Certificate (or Schematics, like O2 bottles from derelict faction now),
I don't really see the difference here. Either way, getting a certain rank would "unlock" something. Or is it because once you have a certificate, you'll keep it no matter what? Don't you think GalFed would/should revoke your "gun license" (aka certificate) if you started shooting them? Keeping a license you should NOT be allowed to would be just as illogical as far as I can see.


In any case, I think the "best" way would be to restrict ACCESS TO FACTION STORES by rank - that way, once you got in and bought a given weapon/system/whatever, you'd be free to use it no matter what you did afterwards.
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Hunbaba
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Re: Possible changes to weapons and factions

Post by Hunbaba »

Darakhoranon wrote: Exactly. You still have to have a certain standing (i.e. rank) in order to ENTER some stores. If you have the rank, you have access to the equipment they sell. If you don't have the rank...
...you just ask someone else that does have it to buy it for you. And all those pages that have been written above, are being circumvented from day one.

If you want to press along those lines, suggest that one needs rank in order to use such equipment.
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siddharth
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Re: Possible changes to weapons and factions

Post by siddharth »

" ...you just ask someone else that does have it to buy it for you. And all those pages
that have been written above, are being circumvented from day one.
If you want to press along those lines, suggest that one needs rank in order to use
such equipment. "

the reason I said no rank requirement for such special equipments its good enough we get those access in game for certain faction then knowing you need x amount of faction to equipt it . after you got to that level and got those skills
Only truth prevails, not untruth; by the path of truth is laid out, the Divine
way upon which the sages of the past fulfilled their desires, in attaining the supreme
treasure of Truth.
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