CES Industrial Expanders, a trade-in argument

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CES Industrial Expanders, a trade-in argument

Post by Akkamaddi » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:31 am


So, I know this has been kaiboshed before, but I think things are at a point to re-examine industrial equivalent CES extractors, and I think this can be done in a balanced way.

Currently, you can buy CES extractors, get them from the Festive Store, get them as a bonus from purchases, and even get one a month free for a $5 Patreon pledge. (The Patreon pledges are worth every penny, for anyone considering it.) We have gone past the point of having more CES extractors than you can use, to the point that with support you can get more of a single kind you can deploy at once.

I know the argument against CES Industrial is one of balance, and I get that. CES items are one tier lower than the best normal items (with the exception of harvesters?).

I think a way to preserve this is, make it a trade-in system. Don’t sell or give the CESI (CES Industrial?) extractors away. Make it a trade-in system.

For the most basic system with the least design/testing by Coops, make the CESI extractors just a zero-point version of Industrial extractors, much like CES are zero-point version of Commercial extractors.

Have a new NPC appear. Personally, I would vote for Felise Dunar’s slightly crazier sister, Batti Canibelle. A small “store front” would have to be designed, but there are many of those in the game already. There could even be a warning like the Festive Store that most purchases require a staff member to release. I could see the same system working here to help prevent exploits.

With a basic CESI extractor, you trade in three CES extractors of the same kind. It could be menu driven. It may be more generous to allow any trade in, but I think an easier way to handle this is to list the CESI extractors, have their cost to the right, and then an “Exchange” button.

So, if I have three CES Extractor (Flora), I could trade them in for one CESI Extractor (Flora).

I think a base trade of 3-to-1 would make them valuable enough that it would be difficult for a player to completely shift to CESI’s, unless they have significantly supported the game. Also, you can extract more with three commercial extractor than you can one industrial extractor, so it would be a trade off. Personally, I would be hesitant to give up several fuel extractors as my harvesters eat so much Dyzalithiaum, but trading in three CES flora extractors for one CESI flora would keep me swimming in Oats for my Food mall (liquor store, it’s a liquor store).

I would keep the current limits with CES extractors, and have the CESI still count as one CES.

I think that everything here is close enough to existing game assets that design and testing should be simple.

-- slightly off topic --
There are a few extra features that the CESI extractors could have, which could raise the price to x4 or even x5 CES extractor. I also think that all CESI extractors should be the same. While making them configurable would be really cool, I’m not sure if Coops would be available for such extensive testing. This is all just “extra fluff” ideas added to what is above, and can be shot down separately.

- Expanse Compatible – If the CESI extractors work in the expanse, then raise their trade-in price, but it would be well worth it. The only issue here is how to handle the extractor types that don’t have Expanse analogues. I’m not sure if it’s better to have different trade in values (somewhat more complex), or to just make flora / fuel / liquid extractors cost more for no benefit.
(An alternative here is to have a trade in for 2-for-1 CES extractors for CESe extractors that are identical but expanse compatible. You would have to “spend” two cash-value items to get one, so it may not be over powered.)

- Deposit Designation – A feature that I think would be nice is “deposit designation”, but this would require a bit of back-end work. When you place the CESI extractor, you get a new screen with two buttons, “deposit to Commercial Stores” or “deposit to Guild Stores”. These are self explanatory. The former deposits ores to the planet’s Commercial Stores, making it instantly available, and not lost if the ORSA site expires. You could just run the extractor till expiration then go pick everything up. Depositing to Guild Stores makes the extractor work like a Guild Extractor, and everything gets deposited to the player’s guild’s store automatically.

- Stores Protection – Similar to above, if the CESI extractor is on a field that expires, the contents still go to the local Commercial Stores, just as if the hopper becomes full.

- Recall Service – Like the RORI POD feature, CESI extractors can be recalled.

- A.I. Overdrive Interpolation – This may be tricky, and may be a little overpowered. If the player has an equipped Terranor Monitor, the CESI extractor gains double the bonus. Further, the CESI’s adaptive AI can tap into similar processing centers, and a CESI will also get the bonus from a Gleso Productivity System and a Valkyrie interface. The Christmas Specials already allow for production items to get boosts from two ship items, so there is a precedent for the code work. This one would definitely fall into the “Support has is privileges” category.

While I think the idea of adding on an extra feature or two would be cool, history has shown I don’t always have good ideas.

Thank you for your time.

(edit grammatical mistake Oct9)
Last edited by Akkamaddi on Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CES Industrial Expanders, a trade-in argument

Post by Coops » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:08 am

/me raises an eyebrow and waits for feedback :)

As always to the OP of this thread, Kudos on a well thought out post/suggestion. Suggestions are the best way to get new and inventive ideas into the game. A large % of in-game items and tech/systems came from player suggestions just like this.

I watch the community feedback on these then take them to my skunkworks whiteboard for further discussion with the staff etc.

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Re: CES Industrial Expanders, a trade-in argument

Post by Mark3430 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:49 pm

I like this idea, and balance of 3-to-1 trade-ins seems reasonable as does the rest of the main suggestion. We now have VIP Expanse extractors so I think that should cover the expanse section. I do like the deposit/stores protection suggestion, could be a nice way to donate to/fill guild stores and would be rare enough for guild extractors to still be usable while also making rare resource spots much easier to manage for heavy supporters. I'd say they should follow the same recall criteria that all extractors do now, if you are supporting the game enough to have enough CES extractors for this why not support a bit more and get/switch out for the RORI, would also add some more balance to them. I'd say it should be purely like current CES extractors with the same PODs affecting their output for balance's sake as well.

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Re: CES Industrial Expanders, a trade-in argument

Post by Gorkus » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:40 pm

Great idea. Do it Coops!

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Re: CES Industrial Expanders, a trade-in argument

Post by Albatross » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:04 pm

I agree this is a great idea. There are always more resources needed for huge projects. Terrific write-up, Akkamaddi.

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