Recent haulage changes

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The Wolf
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Recent haulage changes

Post by The Wolf »

First of all, I want to make it clear that my comments and thoughts are my own and that I write this out of my own volition, and before passing judgment I urge you to read this to the end and spend some time with it before considering commenting on it.

Having seen chat the last couple of days and knowing the hatred that Coops has received about the haulage changes, I'm appalled by what I've seen, rather than players thinking about the wider view of why the changes were necessary, they get stuck on their own narrow reason why they hate the change so much. There are many with positive views on the changes too, but those are completely neglected and hidden by the amount of negativity from just a handful of players.

First of all, any game that has been around for as long as CE, requires some tweaking and balancing from time to time. CE is no different, and the fact is that CE hardly ever sees any balancing changes, but many are needed to make the game fair to everyone.

Haulage was originally designed when the game had just 3 galaxies to explore, Sphere, Forge, and Anvil, and ships with cargo upgrades at the time could only go up to about 1500 cargo. For the time, the system worked well, but then new galaxies were added NEI upgrades, Player made ships, and massive cargo systems.
So a system originally designed for moving cargo a max of about 600 distance with a max cargo of no more than 1500 and engines much smaller than the current ones, now became a system of being able to move 5k+ over distances more than 1200, and with better engines to get more fuel, tools like NEI to make the jumps easier. As one player has mentioned, he joined the game and managed to make it to level 180 in less than a year by just hauling.

Something had to be done, as haulage was clearly broken, Coops could off-course have choices to do the simple thing and slap 2 or 3 extra zeros on all the prices, but this meant everyone will have to start hauling to pay for everything, and combat pilots, for example, would be priced out of the game. So instead he decided to overhaul the haulage system to make it more like how the original system was designed, and more in line with passengers. At the same time, an original spin was given to haulage to make it a bit more of an interesting profession within the game. A lot of time has gone into thinking about how it would solve the issue by taking into account what we need to do to fix the CE economy and also to make it fair to everyone.
I know what a lot of you will say right now, but I can't do XYZ, my settlement is now not in a good location anymore... I've heard them all already, instead of players being so negatively about the game and being rude to Coops and staff, who have spent a lot of time thinking about how to make the system as fair as possible for everyone, try to look at the positive side of the change after all a lot of thought has gone into how to revamp it to something more exciting.

Now I fully understand that not everyone is happy with these changes, and while we don't ban players for criticizing the hard work Coops has put in, in the last couple of days the chat has been dominated by a handful of players being only negatively about the changes, and not talk about anything else anymore. To the point where anyone who supports the changes or just wants to chat with fellow CE players have been avoiding the chat because of all the negative in there. I just ask this of players, do you think it's worth destroying the chat because you feel like you have to go on and on about the changes day after day? Even for me, while I still read the chat, I don't engage anymore as it's always the same comments by a handful of players.

Lastly, I just want to point out the benefits of the distance limits:
Ashar was always designed to be an early game haulage service for players who don't really go outside of the first galaxy, and who have small cargo sizes. Off-course more established players can still use Ashar to reach the top rank (albeit it is going to take you a bit longer), but this store has been brought back to a more balanced service for younger captains.
For all other services, while the distance limit is not for everyone, I would like to remind you now that the list is fixed, if we didn't have the distance limit, or increase the distance massively, the longest haulage route would be far and few between because there are now so many destinations in range to populate the list, meaning finding long-distance cargo will go from visiting a handful of systems to an entire galaxy to fill up with enough cargo.

I'm not saying the new haulage changes are perfect, and some tweaks here and there will be made during the coming weeks as we see how players use the new system. But I'm asking players to please respect the fact that CE, unlike many other games, hardly ever see rebalancing changes, and when they are introduced they are important to fix a very broken area of the game (Even if not everyone feels it applies to you, please try to understand why the changes have been made. It's definitely not to punish you.). There is always a maximum effort being made to make the changes fair to players who only just started to players who have been around for the entire existence of CE.

Rather than being completely negative about the changes, think of how with a few tweaks it could be even better and suggest that instead of just slamming the changes into the ground.
Owner and creator of the Core-Exile fan site Project Eagle

My Settlements:
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Hunbaba
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Re: Recent haulage changes

Post by Hunbaba »

I am impressed about the changes. Very. And thats not easy thing to do :). Only flaw i see, is that it took this long to do something about it.

Any long term high level player should be able to see how broken hauling gradually became and that something had to be done.

My hat is off to you Coops, for having a pair big enough to eventually make this change despite a predictable negative backlash you would face. Keeping a persistent game fair, balanced, financially viable without stepping on any toes... yeah, good luck with that.
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SpaceBucks
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Re: Recent haulage changes

Post by SpaceBucks »

A very valid point to make The Wolf. It is never constructive when folks get completely stuck in a loop of anger.
That said, I think folks are intuitively seeing something that seems like the end of hauling, but cannot put their thoughts into words.
I know from my standpoint, I may be letting go of my Wesbec contract at my settlement. I get good visitation being just the right distance to be useful to new and old players, but the new haulage limitations will make it impossible for me to carry the 1.5 million credit charge for the 3-month contract based on the current forward-looking numbers. There just is not enough income in haulage now. And I do see a valid gripe with newer players getting angry that it will take them a very long time to move up in level, and for what reason -- the bigger cargo holds now have a very limited value now, so what is the point?

The game was originally a space trucks game. Now an error in the player-made ships arena is causing a huge change in the most basic and one of the oldest parts of the game. The change hurts!
I find it strange that you would think that players would not get angry. - change sucks.
That said, folks should not take it out on Coops or anyone else helping him with the renovations. There was a big issue that needed fixing, and they did close the big gaping hole in haulage. The cost of the repair may be higher than they expected for sure with a blow-back that is certainly higher than anyone playing could have imagined.

Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail in short order. That said the fix is not all that fair for the newer players and this may take a big bite out of the CE income stream, in-game and out-of-game. This must be considered before pointing fingers.

That said, let us all take a deep breath and move with the winds of change.
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Kaloseidos
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Re: Recent haulage changes

Post by Kaloseidos »

Hunbaba wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:37 pm I am impressed about the changes.
..I was trying to look up your info, but...do you even do haulage Hun? Not that it really matters, you're HUN, lol, so you have that reference, but, ya know...being in it and looking might have a different feel, just gonna put that out there.

For me, yeah, its mostly a no, not happy, but I do have some reasons, not just blind, you changed it, Im mad. I can accept that feeling, and accept its my feeling, not my experience.

My reasons...

I was a part time hauler to begin with, so, I can live without hauling. The type of hauls I did was grabbing what ever I could for the 4-8ish systems I had chosen around where I was going to be "working" (mining/fighting), filling my lil, but mighty, 650 spaces of cargo and zhooom, pinballing off into space. My AI might be right on occasion, that's why I do not turn on mute :P *chuckles*

Now...ok, first, and least important, but incredibly annoying to me...WHY...why did you have to throw off the aesthetic?? I know, its nothing, its colors, its nothing to do with the workings of the game, but I cant. It looks like my 80s-ish HS accounting textbook!! *cry* Seriously, this even pisses me off how much it matters, but it does. Would it have been so hard to keep the look with the table? IDK, it just makes me think of accounting, which is work. My fantasy life of being a Captain, owning my destiny in the challenges of galaxies and factions, no where in there is accounting work. Nope, sorry. Im not a spreadsheet player. Ok, leaving that horse alone.

As for the actual working. I've gone in a couple times. I'm not able to get what I want, I'm not able to fill. If I can't do that, I won't bother. Again, I am not a career hauler, so other than helping me afford some of the blueprints and the rep, which is a thing I do enjoy, I can walk away. Maybe this will help people move into more areas of the game they have not explored before. I don't want to only come off negative, or just be one saying.."this sucks" I can see the need, and appreciate the work. I do think that those that enjoy hauling as a career can and will get used to it if they give it a chance. When my eyeballs stop growling, I will probably make more attempts myself.

I do not, though, understand why combat has to look like this and why the rating system had to be so changed up. That one is getting me. I went in and grabbed a bunch with the new limits I was so excited! I didn't max them, but I pulled a handful of each.

Oh man am I upset.

I went by what I went by previously. I couldn't attack a one of them. Still trying to get over the crushing visual as I lost rep after rep. I know, my fault. Now I am leery, put off.

I like working on rep, thats why I tried to finish fill what I could with Ashar, why I'll do a CAMP mission on occasion, I love titles. But I have not gone back since.

I accept that change is, I accept that I like my routines and this has thrown a monkey wrench into my game life, but that progress must happen for the game to stay alive, balanced, working. I don't have to like it, but I can give it a chance, I know I can and have adapted before and probably will again.

For now, I'm sticking to salvage and mining, my happy place. I am also keeping some cracks in the walls, maybe after a while I can see these office changes in a new light.
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alumoi
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Re: Recent haulage changes

Post by alumoi »

I've reserved my 2 cents until I could get the hang of the new system and now I'm ready to speak up :P

1st cent: It's very inconvenient, to say the least, for those looking for a quick couple of millions in a single run. Before it was as easy as entering a Wesbec/Ashar office in VP, fill your cargo for the Furnace, do the run, load again for VP and, presto! Now you have to really work for your buck, carefully selecting through multiple Wesbec/Ashard offices for the most profitable route.

2nd cent: It's very interesting and I'm begining to like it a lot. Of course I had to ditch my 1800+ cargo expander (as it seems I can't find even 2K worth of cargo in my target zone) and now I'm looking into combining cargo and passenger missions in order to maximize the runs, but it's almost fun. Yes, it's more time consuming but it also means you have to plan ahead and use your head. Yes, sometimes I want to screm 'give me another damned mission in the freaking $galaxy!' but a little break in monotony is good for you.

So, between a loss of 500k - 1 mil CR per cargo run and the fun having to plan ahead my route I say GOOD JOB, COOPS! Haters gonna hate, whatever you do, so don't mind them.
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