Skunk works

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Akkamaddi
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Skunk works

Post by Akkamaddi » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:13 am

Hello.

So, I got my first red item. I must say, it's a sweet little reactor. :mrgreen: I have a few random thoughts and questions.

First and foremost, love it. Coops, I have always said that I think it was a very intelligent design choice of yours to make weapon modification templates ("Poorly Restored", "Pristine", "Military Grade", "Jurry Rigged", etc.). When you make one weapon, you immediately get a dozen or so weapons added to the game. This actually adds a sheen of verisimilitude. You don't just find a dozen Potato Cannons, you find Potato Cannons that people have messed with, broken, fixed, tried to fix, tinkered with, or made a counterfeit.

Bob seems to be more of a "special project" version. You are finding something unique.

With the names, is the ADV a "tinkered with" version of an existing model, or is the name randomly generated? I found an "Enhanced Predator Hathor Reactor". Is the Predator Hathor Reactor a new model series? Or was that name created by Bob? I notice there is no version number (most reactors have versions 1 through 4), so I am wondering if that is unique, or are there now Predator Hathor Reactors mk1-mk4 now floating around? For weapons, will they start appearing as "Pristine", "Poorly Restored", etc.?

And to that, as a more open question to everyone, would it be worth having three dedicated posts to the ADV weapons, reactors, and expanders, where people can post and archive what they find?

I had one small critique, and I may be the in the tremendously small minority about this, but I'm actually not a fan of the tight level range, +1/-4. To me, that makes loot generation feel rather artificial, and I think is a bit of a trope of RPG's. I do understand the value, as you tend to find a lot of useless items. However, the useless items tent to make fine gifts for new players, and are a steady source of SubMol material.

It is very clear a lot of thought went into this, but if I could suggest: double the level spread, and have 10% of items found be truly random. There is no reason for the laser cannons to disappear. Let 10% of generations bypass the new system and use the old list.

On a somewhat related note, I thought you could rarely find items like refineries. If loot is open to non weapon/reactor/expander items, how is the captain's level brought into this? If Staffium AMR's are in the list, can you only find them if you are levels 24-29?

Lastly, might there one day be Bobs for other kinds of items? A mining scanner with reduced energy requirements would be very valuable, as those things devour power. A unique factory that has +1 unit production or -1 unit input would be a sort of "alien artifact" equivalent.

Thank you for your time. I'm off to find more rare loot. :lol:



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Akkamaddi
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Re: Skunk works

Post by Akkamaddi » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:23 am

Oops! I was going to add... (Sorry for self-posting)

A possible idea, for those who want to help the lower level players, a very cheap to make "Humble Light POD", I would say 0 or 1 POD points only. Version 1 causes the captain level to effectively be 80% for loot generation. Version 2 is 60%, Version 3 is 40%, and V4 is 20%. The POD might give a small boost in loot generation, but usually generates lower level loot. The main reason would be for higher level guild players to help lower level players find good equipment.

The "Bold Light POD" would be a CES store purchase, and a 0 point POD. The captain's level would be +10% for loot generation.

An alternative would be the CES Captain upgrade, "Elite Scavenger" (single purchase captain upgrade), permanently add +5 to the maximum level of the level generation, and +2 to the minimum level (increase minimum level, so -2/+6 currently), so you consistently find valuable loot.

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Akkamaddi
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Re: Skunk works

Post by Akkamaddi » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:59 am

It's confirmed ADV items are a new "type". I just found two Hybrid Alliance Cannon ADV-113 back-to-back.

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Coops
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Re: Skunk works

Post by Coops » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:42 am

Akkamaddi wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:13 am
With the names, is the ADV a "tinkered with" version of an existing model, or is the name randomly generated? I found an "Enhanced Predator Hathor Reactor". Is the Predator Hathor Reactor a new model series? Or was that name created by Bob? I notice there is no version number (most reactors have versions 1 through 4), so I am wondering if that is unique, or are there now Predator Hathor Reactors mk1-mk4 now floating around? For weapons, will they start appearing as "Pristine", "Poorly Restored", etc.?
Any ship based items that are located that are built through the Skunk Works 'Bob's' will have an ADV suffix. The Reactor you refer to above does infact have an ADV identifier, perhaps the line wrapped on your screen and you missed it - it is a Enhanced Predator Hathor Reactor ADV-398.

ADV items are where Bob delves into the Existing Loot table and grab an item (at random) and then 'improve it'. They then give it a NEW name (using the new name convention for Bobs) and drop the new item back into the loot pool. They won't pick ADV items from the list only normal or RA's items.

The new Naming convention is for ALL items created by Bob's. Any link to an old existing name is purely coincidental.
Akkamaddi wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:13 am
I had one small critique, and I may be the in the tremendously small minority about this, but I'm actually not a fan of the tight level range, +1/-4. To me, that makes loot generation feel rather artificial, and I think is a bit of a trope of RPG's. I do understand the value, as you tend to find a lot of useless items. However, the useless items tent to make fine gifts for new players, and are a steady source of SubMol material.

It is very clear a lot of thought went into this, but if I could suggest: double the level spread, and have 10% of items found be truly random. There is no reason for the laser cannons to disappear. Let 10% of generations bypass the new system and use the old list.
I'm currently keeping my eye on whats being looted and how this pans out and may well increase/open up the locks a bit as we go along. I initially clamped it down until I got a feel for how this behaves. The -3 +1 will possibly change over time.
Akkamaddi wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:13 am
On a somewhat related note, I thought you could rarely find items like refineries. If loot is open to non weapon/reactor/expander items, how is the captain's level brought into this? If Staffium AMR's are in the list, can you only find them if you are levels 24-29?
There are MANY loot systems in CE. The Bobs loot table is one we have used for a few years now and ONLY deals with ship-based items. There is nothing in THAT table that is non-ship based.
Akkamaddi wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:13 am
Lastly, might there one day be Bobs for other kinds of items? A mining scanner with reduced energy requirements would be very valuable, as those things devour power. A unique factory that has +1 unit production or -1 unit input would be a sort of "alien artifact" equivalent.
That's a tough one. Sure I 'could and may' build Bobs for more than ship based items, but it's tricky. Many of these items have specific code that they work around. Adding more non-standard items in many instances would require the reworking of a lot fo specific pages of code. Not unimaginable, but....

Coops
A Walk in the Woods helps me relax and release the tension from a hard day at the code.
The fact that I'm dragging a body behind me should be irrelevant!

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Akkamaddi
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Re: Skunk works

Post by Akkamaddi » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:01 pm

Thank you for the answers.
Coops wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:42 am
Any ship based items that are located that are built through the Skunk Works 'Bob's' will have an ADV suffix.
(snip)
The new Naming convention is for ALL items created by Bob's. Any link to an old existing name is purely coincidental.
I'm sorry, it looks like I was a bit unclear. I did see the ADV, but but did not copy it.

So, the Predator Hathor Reactor, Adapted Terran Cargo Unit, and Hybrid Alliance Cannon are not standard models. The Hybrid Alliance Cannon will always be "Hybrid Alliance Cannon ADV-113", and never a Poorly Restored Hybrid Alliance Cannon mk3.
Coops wrote: I'm currently keeping my eye on whats being looted and how this pans out and may well increase/open up the locks a bit as we go along. I initially clamped it down until I got a feel for how this behaves. The -3 +1 will possibly change over time.
Understood.

Also, random thought, depending on how easy it is to modify that value, it could also be tied to Patreon support:
@$1 : +1 maximum loot level
@$5 : +1 minimum loot level
@10 : +1 minimum / +1 maximum loot level.

That would be a nice enticement, but I don't think it would be overpowered. Of course the Bobs would need a bit more testing and maturation first, I understand.
Coops wrote: There are MANY loot systems in CE. The Bobs loot table is one we have used for a few years now and ONLY deals with ship-based items. There is nothing in THAT table that is non-ship based.
Good to know, thank you.
Coops wrote: Sure I 'could and may' build Bobs for more than ship based items, but it's tricky.
Coops
I completely understand. All weapons work basically the same, and all cargo expanders work basically the same. There are three fundamentally different kinds of combat scanners. Although, it would be interesting if the various special abilities like weapon damage boost (Hammer), cargo boost (Tesla), speed or hull boost, etc. might appear on ADV reactors or cargo expanders.

Would it help if I took the opportunity to shamelessly talk about how awesome my $5 Patreon perks are? How nice it is to run three more CES extractors? The monthly boost of IP and automatically perpetuating premium account status? ;)

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Akkamaddi
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Re: Skunk works

Post by Akkamaddi » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:05 am

Oh, and Coops, *please* tell me that there is a little catch in Bob's code that the ADV item number 666 has some infernally silly name, like "Satans Evil Cargo Hold" or "The Devils Pumpkin Cannon"? Please? :lol:

And not to pile onto this, but are there passenger cabins in Bob's toy chest? I know tweaking the "cargo" value more than +1 would lead to really OP items, but skill, captain level, and power consumption are fair targets. A Luxor Cabin at -2 captain level and -5% power would be a really nice item for anyone who does Union, but would not compete with CE Store Luxury cabins.

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Coops
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Re: Skunk works

Post by Coops » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:13 am

Bob has the ability to re-work Pass Cabins as well yes. I;ll nee dot check on the Demonic elements :)

Coops
A Walk in the Woods helps me relax and release the tension from a hard day at the code.
The fact that I'm dragging a body behind me should be irrelevant!

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Sukayo
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Re: Skunk works

Post by Sukayo » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:21 am

wow, an ADV Emissary Cabine?

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