Mech changes

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Darakhoranon
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Mech changes

Post by Darakhoranon »

Since we're all busy blowing up Coop's mechs right now ;) , it might be the right time to think about mech combat and possible changes to it in general.



As far as I can see, only Alpha sector actually sees any (semi-)regular use at all, mainly because you need to a) manage to rack up MP to gain access and then b) keep those mechs with MP standing around gathering dust so that you don't lose the MP and thus access when they (inevitably) go the way of all mechs. Which is a shame, really, since that makes about half the theoretically available chassis completely useless and demotes all but ablative 4 armor to "next to useless" (since you'll end up with much fewer hp or simply can't field a mech with "good" armor).

So maybe it would be better if access to the two "advanced" sectors was tied to your mech commander level instead of (temporary) MP? That way, you wouldn't lose access again and you wouldn't have to deal with likely several mech slots being "blocked" by mechs with MP. It would also mean you could finally USE all the available mech parts - and we wouldn't look at one overrun and two empty sectors every time there's a mech battle event...



Apart from that, is there really any point in using any weapon but KIN? The other kinds may have a higher damage potential, but they are noticeably less reliable (and appear to actually be much less effective once all is said and done).

Maybe things should be changed here, too. Instead of two types of armor, there could be four with identical stats, but with each being "resistant" to a specific weapon type (and only to this one type!), thus making it much more useful to equip your mechs with different weapons. After all, you would no longer be able to predict that it's almost certainly going to be "Predator + Ablative 4 + KIN" - the opposing mech could have e.g. EM armor and KIN weapons, making a mech with TH weapons and KIN armor much more effective against it than one with EM weapons and TH armor. But you couldn't tell, so you'd almost HAVE to create different mech setups (and still hope for the best)...
With great power comes the great realization that you can have just as much fun simply annoying each other.
SilverSun
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Re: Mech changes

Post by SilverSun »

I will say something. :)
First of all... Thanks for pointing out that something isn't so great.

I must admit... Great fun!!!
But the actual chances for a player that does not have access to millions is small.

As a new player we have a few very rough hurdles to jump.
1) we can't find those res to build even the simplest of simple Mech.
2) maybe we can't afford to buy those res.
3) traveling to the Mech assembly costs fuel.

1. Issue here is that even if we could build this or that part of the Mech... We can't. The resources are not available.
2. It's cheaper and especially more fun to run to the festive office and spend some points. Very cool.... But what do you get? Only lucky very basic cheap shots basically. No good quality.
3. As a commander 1 you may build only 3 Mechs. Meaning you need to jump to the Mech assembly all the time cause your Mechs are being blasted away one after the other. 3 in 5min is no rare event.

I can build 3mechs with starter packs and deploy only 1 Mech using festive points, while other players have access to resources to build greatystuff and can deploy 4 at a time while I can only deploy 1.

So my chances are minimal. And I must say very new player unfriendly. It's all luck I admit, and if you bang out 100 starter Mechs... You might land a kill. I did... Arg!

But...
The feeling leaves a bitter taste of failure. And the only thing that I can think is... "Next year I'm at a lvl to properly participate in this contest". But is it meant to be like this?

The Mech war in Sector A is dominated by veterans. They can deploy 4 times the amount of Mechs with much greater quality. It's a hard contest for low lvl players.

But fun! Just spend all your festive points for cheap starter packs and run to the Mech essambly over and over again.

I think this contest should be separated by player lvl... It's not fair at all... The higher lvl player can deploy more mechs in sector A then a noob. Why? Wrong league... The income and experience of a player is fact here and letting a player lvl150 drop 4 upgraded super Mechs next to a single noob Mech is not a competition, it's a massacre.

To all you new players out there... All I can say is... invest 3000 festive points... slam out one Mech after the other... And if your lucky... Then Santa will give you a pod. :)
Even if unfair... It's worth it! :)

For me personally it's enough already. Not because of the cost, or the cost of festive points... It's because of the lack of success... The endless feeling of defeat and loosing... I really had to loose so much just to reach commander 2...is it real? Not noob friendly.
Golden Ribblez spotted studying helioseismology, with defrosted Fish Tacos eating Hilton, on Messor.
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Jager 602
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Re: Mech changes

Post by Jager 602 »

The mech arena can be very fickle; you can see my formal complaint in Coops Tavern ;) but Sven's sells all the parts you need at the barter store, so you don't need to use festive points. The mechs you can build will be almost the same quality, and since Mechs normally don't team up with each other, you don't usually have a situation where a veteran drops two and they team up to defeat everyone else. I just had a freak situation where my two mechs happened to follow each other into the same space and fight the same opponent – that has not happened for me since almost the very beginning of my Mech fighting days. I did once propose a stock mech rally, where everyone fights with the most basic starter mechs as a sort of way to get players into the arena, but would probably require players not taking advantage of the situation and putting down stronger Mechs.

As for mech commander level, the mech stomp is the best time to level, as there are so many mechs in the arena that it is easier than normal to get a quick kill here or there. Last year my record was great; this year my record is terrible. I'm still doing better now than at other times of the year when there's only a handful of Mechs in the arena .
A plaque on both your horses.
SilverSun
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Re: Mech changes

Post by SilverSun »

Uh! Sven Barter shop! Tnx for the tip. Cool, didn't think of that. :) Will drop some more mechs later. :)... Hehe.
Golden Ribblez spotted studying helioseismology, with defrosted Fish Tacos eating Hilton, on Messor.
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Lost Queen
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Re: Mech changes

Post by Lost Queen »

: )

While I like the idea of having armour that is weak against a particular weapon type, I don't think it will add to the strategy of the arena. I think it will just make it take more luck to win.

Weighing in on some other points:
1. Alpha sector allows a maximum of 2 (NOT 4) mechs from any one commander to be deployed at one time. And there's a max HP allowed for each sector. So everyone is limited to building the same quality of mechs.
2. New Commanders listen up!! Don't try to do it all at the same time. You can't. Either do what you normally do while playing the game or go to the closest mech building facility and stay there while you fight your mechs.
3. You can build 3 mechs at once, so build them all. Deploy one, wait for it to win. Now the hard part: RECALL!!! Keep trying to get that mech out of there, until either you can or it's dead. Then repair it, and deploy another one. If you lose a mech, it's no big deal. It's all for fun after all.
4. I have 53 wins and 119 loses, currently.

And a point of my own: read my siggy.

: )
: ) It could be worse. : )
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Darakhoranon
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Re: Mech changes

Post by Darakhoranon »

Mech combat NEVER had anything to do with "strategy", Queen... ;-)

And while you're right in that my suggestion wouldn't exactly decrease the "luck dependency" of winning mech battles, it would at least make all those "not-KIN" weapon packs useful. Right now they're useLESS (all types of armor are much better vs all weapons that aren't KIN and KIN weapons also depend at least a little less on luck to do a reasonable amount of damage).
There's a reason why "Predator + Ablative 4 + KIN (Adv)" is the "standard" mech and everything else is basically just something you throw into the arena because you don't feel like trying to sell the parts to someone else. :D


Concerning the much greater "staying power" of advanced players (due to higher mech commander ratings and thus more mechs in reserve before assembling new ones becomes necessary):
Yes, that IS a potential problem, too. But that's one of my points, after all. EVERYONE enters Alpha (and only Alpha), the other two sectors are in effect just so much window dressing. So if it was possible for advanced players to enter the other sectors (without first getting a lot of mech points and then keeping them to gather dust), Alpha probably wouldn't be that overrun - and newer players might have a better chance to take part without getting steamrolled by an unending horde of "optimized" mechs...
With great power comes the great realization that you can have just as much fun simply annoying each other.
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Hunbaba
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Re: Mech changes

Post by Hunbaba »

There is Mech commander level requirement for sectors.

Sector requirements:

Alpha
Mech commander: Level 1 or higher
Mech points required: 0
Maximum mechs: 2
Mech maximum HP: 1500

Bravo
Mech commander: Level 3 or higher
Mech points required: 100
Maximum mechs: 2
Mech maximum HP: 1800

Charlie
Mech commander: Level 5 or higher
Mech points required: 200
Maximum mechs: 2
Mech maximum HP: 2500

In addition, Mech commander level also defines how many mechs you can have in your garage (2 per level i think) and also how many mechs you can deploy at the same time. There is a total number of mechs deployed limit in addition to 2 per sector. In the beginning only one can be deployed. At my current Mech commander level 6 i think i can deploy 5. For example two in Alpha, two in Bravo, one in Charlie.

Mech points really are no problem. At level 1 you wont be saving mechs anyway, but throwing them in the battle all the time. Well, one at a time until level 2 :P. When reaching Mech commander level 3 garage should have room for 6 mechs. Level three is also when you could enter Bravo. At that point one mech with 100 MPs or two with 50 MPs each shouldnt be a problem (it still leaves four mechs to play with). Once you have them, dont use them and replace them with other mechs when they beat their score. Eventually you will end up with a single mech that has 200+ MPs and thats yout ticket to everywhere. If you throw such mech into fray, thats your problem (stupidity).

Newbie commanders, if anywhere, have a chance in Alpha. Thats where basic mechs can win or hope to ambush already damaged one. It is only place you can have basic mechs (one obtained from rewards) and hope for a win. In Bravo sector mechs can have HP up to 1800. Those are higher level mechs you dont get as part of reward packs. Also less traffic there meaning you are likely to face off a tougher mech one on one. In case those sectors are opened for newbies, it will really become a newbie slaughterhouse.
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Darakhoranon
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Re: Mech changes

Post by Darakhoranon »

Maybe mech commander level already plays a role in theory, but due to the MP requirement, it's actually a "non-prereq" - by the time you have the MP to enter Bravo or Charlie, you're practically GUARANTEED to also have the mech commander level anyway (unless you somehow manage to bribe the powers of darkness into making your basic mech ambush several opponents with very few hp left but many MP...).

And don't try to tell us "newbie commanders" actually have any kind of reasonable chance against all the experienced players (who can and will throw random mechs into Alpha by the dozen without really expecting any kind of "predictable" outcome) - until they find out that the only semi-reliable mech build for Alpha is Predator+Ablative4+Adv KIN, that is... ;-)

How exactly would Bravo or Charlie become a "newbie slaughterhouse" anyway? As you pointed out, you already need a certain mech commander level to enter, so we can assume anyone who COULD enter either of those sectors has at least some idea of what he/she/it is doing. And since more people having access to the "advanced" sectors would mean more traffic there, too...
Besides, this just might generate some demand for the advanced mechs, too. I've only ever seen about half a dozen different (old/high level) players in Bravo and Charlie, which suggests to me that there's very little actual going on there. Or do you just want to preserve your "private dueling ground"?!? :D
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Jager 602
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Re: Mech changes

Post by Jager 602 »

Sven barters the higher level/rank chassis as well- I think you can get just about all the mech parts at Sven's. The only thing keeping me out of sectors Bravo and Charlie are the lower mech numbers in those areas- I always seem to do more poorly for some reason when there are fewer mechs. Maybe I am just a sucky mech commander?
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Darakhoranon
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Re: Mech changes

Post by Darakhoranon »

Which is basically one of the main points of my idea - to make sectors Bravo and Charlie just as attractive/visited as Alpha...
With great power comes the great realization that you can have just as much fun simply annoying each other.
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