Start pack

[SilverSun]

Hi
Before I forget about what I went through...lol...I would like to suggest a "start pack" instead of the 20,000 registration bonus.

inside a "start pack" could be:
-a rusty old astroid scanner(a taste for mining)
-a weak broken shield generator(combat, better 50 shield then nothing)
-a little Lego building kit to build 10 micro matrix units (crafting/engineering)
-a small fish factory (fishburger manufacturing)
-the schakal scavanging drill (salvage, maybe)
-the fish burger shop (micro mall)
-my first harvest (extracting 2/h)
-dirty old taxi (person transport...like just one 3rd class passenger)
-a shopping list (leading to big player promenades like at Descarte)

After a month of playing I must say that the diversity and the great freedom of choice is what I like a lot about CE. It took me a while to understand this. It's very confusing, almost too confusing. A starter pack, which contained items that have no major impact on the economy of CE might awaken more interest of new players to "try more out" before quitting.
I have seen friends start and stop in this last month...which I find sad. Also I see many players start and reach lvl8 in an hour and then...silence.

We follow the guide, try out mining (which is boring) and then we try combat...bam bam...lvl lvl...hull breech...eek. Register 20,000. Then, big gun, wrong law lvl...bam hull breech, hull breech. Law lvl? Cash gone, lots of unknown buttons...arrrgg....try another game.

The 20,000 registration bonus is great, but those will be spent for a weapon that is useless an hour later. And if you don't spend it, which most players don't, then it's not much anymore after 2 hours.

But a "start pack" full of noob junk is a great learning treasure. If the items in the start pack don't actually require a captain lvl, or any IP at all, then the player could just try it all out (relaxed) without fearing to do everything or anything wrong...he could just dump his extractor and wait for an hour to harvest some wheat or smelly fish...lol...to have the ingredients to make a fish burger to sell at his junky micro mall.

There is no significant real income generated from all these items...more symbolically, but if a player finds passion, and fun in a certain direction...then he will be very motivated to get the "real gun", or REAL shield, or bigger extractor...to feed the real sexy mall or demanding factory. ...yep. Cool. Lol

But if this new player doesn't know all this, then he just takes 1:1 turns firing off his weapon at a NPC pirate ship. Shoot me, shoot him, shoot me, shoot him. That's not CE!!! Or pick up the ore and fly it to the refinery hundreds of times. That's not CE either.

Sadly I believe many new players that start CE, play like this for a day or two...but I don't find it's really the true heart and idea of this game. This game has so many choices.

Brain busting creativity.
Amazingly inteligent expansive possibilities.
CE is a masterpiece of creative coding!

...a noob start pack should proudly underline the multiple facets CE has to offer to new players...showing them: "look, you can do that too!"

Tnx for reading all this. Lol
Very cool.
Just suggesting. ... positive constructive thoughts. Yep.

[Sukayo]

hm, a personal harvester was/is a payout of some mission.
malls and factories - IMO for some carriers not needed at all.
Player settlements - are not stable, some very known and often used player settlements are recycled and gone from the game now, even the pilot can decide to remove it. So a guide where to go is no easy to maintain thing.

But yes, the learning curve is too steep for a lot of the new joiners, so to flatten it and to lead them to the true values of CE something beside the starter missions is possible needed.

And you forgot a bit about the pet, CQC, faction standing and so on.

Here are some guilds out who offer such packs to get the members up. Even ships and more.

[SilverSun]

I'm sure there are some guilds that help. But what's the "get up" thing you mentioned? I'm not actually talking about a start pack that will "get players up" ...or either help them grow, or even contribute anything to their growth or wealth.
More like things to let them try out different directions of CE, without getting stuck on the beginners guide.

Lets say I join your guild...ok? Then what will happen, you might give me a cargo expander and tell me the best think I can do is spend all my IP on device and go hauling to furnace. Right? Or something like that.... peace.
But honestly, even though you are right, that's not supporting, you might as well play this game for me then. See my point?
Supporting is to leave the player the freedom of choice without effecting his/her game at all. It's answering questions, and possibly lending things if asked for them. Support is giving exactly the right amount of help to balance the ACTUAL needs of a new player, not more, to get him interested and keep him interested...BUT.

And this is the most important: it is very important to leave the player a feeling of success, this very important feeling of success is taken away from players very often if they get all items from...friends, guilds. To actually look back and say..."wow, cool, I built that/I killed that/I figured that out!" Is a very strong and psychologically heavy weighted important aspect, for all players.

This is the main and only reason why I don't join a guild Sukayo, I like working things out, and figuring it out, counting it out and trying it out. I'm old enough to ask my questions with PMs, and I ask another player each time. ...

So, lol....as well as you mean, and your guild means...I don't agree. The issue "noob start pack" is way way more complex then just "getting a player up".
It's about actually demonstrating that freedom of choice we get in CE from the very start of the game. Any motivated player can get him/herself up with a kitchen knife and a dustpan as a shield. As long as he/she is motivated and having fun, this player has no rush... nowhere to be first...nobody to beat or to prove anything too. Just play.

A start pack would function more like a bridge between the two worlds. On one side the great country called "freedom of choice"...on the other side..the "hills of narrow sighting". Lol ...but it wouldn't actually financially support a new player.

Yes certainly most of the things I noted above are not doable, but I thought I write it a little funny. The suggestion I made is just to positively actually effect a new players game, to get the player to see...in the first hours that he is playing, that CE is a vast big virtual reality offering hundreds of choices. ...it's very confusing at the start, many of the choices and options are closed to a new player because of the big amount of information offered in the first place. It's tricky.
Where is the alliance combat office btw?

[pikolinianita]

I'd see it more like NPC chains, with NPCs located in Feris/Ethan, than simple starter pack. The first mission is "Deliver Ashar", so N-th could be Deliver pass,
And few mission later "Extract Stuff", then "I give you factory, run it for some time", then "Sell Stuff in this Mall". It could be "Factory (Ready Meals)" and kiosk
Thoughs?

[SilverSun]

Well, yes. More starter NPCs chains like Gunny would certainly be even better then a Start Pack. The 2 NPC chains combat and mining are actually very helpful I find.

[Sukayo]

we had in the past a discussion about such missions. At the end a lot of information got added to the wiki, no new missions got created.

So the question is - can we bring up a framework for missions which could help new pilots to find the way into the deep of Core Exiles?

[Sukayo]

Found one older post around the guides viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1889&p=9783&hilit=beginner#p9783 available ingame.

Will see what i can find elsewhere.

[Akkamaddi]

I like this idea. I don't think it would require any new equipment, but we can toy with that idea. A starting kit would do well.

Taking from Silver Sun:

-a rusty old astroid scanner(a taste for mining)

An Asteroid Scanner 1 only gives you a scan rating of 5, which I think is the minimum for some of the ores. I don't know if a scanner with a rating of 2 or 3 would do anything.

-a weak broken shield generator(combat, better 50 shield then nothing)

Going by what is in the CEDR (which has no "Rare Loot" items), the Absorbtion Shield models go down to level 3 and Reflective to Level 6.

However, perhaps the "Asteroid Reflector" reflective shield, and "Debris Mitigator" absorptive shield shield that are both level 3, minimal stats, and (Coops, pointing at this part) in the item description, put "you only need one shield technology, and if your plans to grow in the new galaxy are...." and have "this is good for frequent combat pilots who invest in powerful shields" or "this is good for occasional combat pilots who need a low skill and energy shield that is functional". As someone who has tutored new people, this comes up _a lot_.

The shields can be some dinky little placeholders until a better investment is made, and players have options by level 10.

-a little Lego building kit to build 10 micro matrix units (crafting/engineering)

Or, have an NPC quest to make two each armor, hull, and shield booster kits, and have the quest chains auto-deposit the resources into the local commercial storage. The NPC's flavor text can also (Coops, pointing!) explain how to get things out of storage. I know there are already tutorials, but that first time always seems to be problematic. (I'm not throwing shade. At first, for me, planetary storage was a bunch of \dev\null buckets.)

-a small fish factory (fishburger manufacturing)

I want to hug you.

The single-use factories have a level requirement of only 10. The problem with factories is that they really need an investment in Survey for extractors.

However, a good NPC quest would be to put a Construction Components or Textile Goods Factory in the player ship, and enough resources to run it for ten hours in the local planetary storage. (If you want to be nice, put this on a planet with a factory field on the promenade. Otherwise, the player learns how to use the CSTS!) The requirement for the quest is ten hours worth of Construction Components or Textile Goods.

Or if you want something to entice new people:

Factory (Galactic Munchies) [Level 5, Manufacturing skill 10, 2 structure points]
Four (or more) slot factory, like advanced:
1) Nova Munch Mix: 10 Anvil Grain, 10 Forge Grain, 5 Cereal (Domat) = 5 Nova Munch Mix units
2) Splendid Succotash Packs: 5 Corn (Eden), 10 Oats, 5 Water (Beltaine) = 5 Splendid Succotash Packs units
3) Olivat Pilaf Packs: 5 Rice (Olivat), 10 Rice, 5 Water (Olivat) = 5 Olivat Pilaf Packs units
4) Narist-YO! Energy Bars: 10 Water, 5 Wheat (Elista), 5 Bio Foods (Lorats Hold) = 5 Narist-YO! Energy Bars units

While these could be food products used in construction, the main use would be producing something more valuable than the sources to sell for a greater profit. This is no different than refining ore to sell for more money. More importantly, everything but one item requires a survey value of 20 or less (Bio Foods is 40). If there are schematics for settlement constructs or passenger cabins, very low level players could start selling things on the GBM with little IP investment. Otherwise, someone with very little skill could run a factory like this and turn a profit.

-the schakal scavanging drill (salvage, maybe)

The only issue I see with this is the most basic salvage laser has a damage rating of 2. You could probably make something that only strips 1-4 units of resource from a hull per shot (I think the level 1 salvage tools strip 1-6), but even Target Drones will require 10-20 units of fuel to harvest. I like the idea, but will you just give someone something that burns too much fuel to be fun?

-the fish burger shop (micro mall)

Still want to hug you.

I think a Kiosk - Food would work well here. It only requires a level of 10 and Negotiation Skill of 10. If I'm right, you can stock it with rice, corn, wheat, etc. from your extractors, on to....

-my first harvest (extracting 2/h)

Personal Extractors require a level of only 5 and no skill. I think you can hit level 5 fast enough that something weaker really is not needed.

I would also say, give a Gas, Liquid, and Flora extractor, or better, two each.

I did this with the people I tutored. If they were interested, I would give them Metal personal extractors, and as many others as they wanted. Gas, Liquid, and Flora extractors have the lowest Survey skill requirements to get goods, and there are regular GBM contracts for Oxygen, Water, and Wood. Two of each lets a player start making free money at level 5 with little skill investment.

[EDIT: problematic idea removed]

-dirty old taxi (person transport...like just one 3rd class passenger)

The Passenger Cabin Model 1 can be used at level 6. The Passenger ECO - Module EM1 can be used at level 10, but requires less skill.

I would actually make a Passenger ECO for everyone I tutored. I would be up front that hauling passengers is not particularly fun or profitable at very low levels, but they might like it, and it's important to try everything.

-a shopping list (leading to big player promenades like at Descarte)

Definitely. This would actually be good as part of an NPC tutorial. Coops, would it be possible to require "visit Emporium store fronts (actually enter a person's store) on three different planets"?

Sakuyo also mentioned the harvester missions, but I would stay away from that. Otherwise, a player would be having to buy Dyz fuel to burn in the harvester for a few units of some of the cheapest resources available. Stick to extracting.

[pikolinianita]

I'm quite against New Items - There is a lot of items already, and adding new, complicated stuff for lvl 0-10... well, that effort could be spent better elsewhere.

I imagine such mission chain:
- Mission: Do something - Reward: extractor (Flora) (1a)
-M: 30 Rice - R: extractor (liquid)
-M: 30 Water - R: extractor (flora) (1b)
-M: 30 cereal - R: Factory (Ready Meals)
-M: 50 Ready Meals - R: Kiosk (Food NPC)
M: ??? (2) - R: ???

1) Option: Would be nice to add two missions
a) M:??? - R: lvl 1 implant (with Survey/production skill), directions to BSA Pod
b) M:??? (perhaps BSA POD equipped, or BIM found) - R: T1 Implant Shell

2) Mission target should be connected to Malls, Amount of resources sold, or income from malls, whatever Coops can easily measure

[SilverSun]

Well, your right there...more items might actually only complicate the issue.( Big hug to Akkamaddi for the great description of a fantastic munchie world.)
Lol

I can only write about my own experience, and I believe it might be rare that a player does come forward and says it. It's my contribution. I like this game, and I would like others to like it more then me. All those new player items exists as Akkamaddi already pointed out. But as a new player that's not help, cause he can't find them...or cause he can't afford them.

And then there's the other very important point.
Players trying out Core Exiles are not used to this kind of game...they will join and invest in weapons and defense. They come from a dark scary world full of aggression and hate. A world that is conditioned to mistrust and to fear one another. Yep.

The more I read about how you feel, the more I see, that maybe it is ok as it is. The current situation and options function as a filter...what's left are smart and exploration driven players that have patience.

So possibly the start pack thing is just an illusion, a thought that the game needs to expand, that all new players should stay here...but possibly it's not like that all.
Maybe we don't want everybody...we want those few!

So this topic could possibly help to support those that have the nerves and the patience to be tutors...(hug)...maybe there is a way to take a certain amount of tutorial away from the players that make this effort with a small change...like:
The NPC at 51 offers the low level items in his goods?

But yes, I fact after all this talk I do agree that it's possibly not the right path to generate something new. But interesting would be...at what lvl do most players stop playing. It's not lvl 145...also not 57 or 31. I'm certain that most players THAT HAVE TRYIED TO PLAY FOR AN HOUR choose to look for another game after lvl 8? 12?...: (Coops check the data)
Why? ...why there?
Possibly...
At this point "personal creativity" is demanded! The mining and the combat missions are getting difficult. Personal creativity is not a thing anybody can just shake out of his sleeve....it's a gift. We managed to get this far!!! We are professional "personal creativity" people! Very cool!

I must say...maybe it's just great as it is.

Munchie munchie!
lmao...you made me laugh with that! Very cool!