Mass destruction

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SilverSun
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:59 pm

Mass destruction

Post by SilverSun »

I love bringing up new stuff. :mrgreen:
Missiles are junk... But what about shields?

I realize that many players don't even use shields... Wtf? :?:

OK, obviously there is a great IP investment needed to use shields... Also the EBKs cost some cash...

But if I don't use shields, then I don't have the matrix advantage. I mean, using 3 matrix might just allow me to take down an enemy that is double my size. Certainly at a cost, but the XP is the reward.

So, I was just looking through the CE stats portal, and what do I see? I didn't kill almost nothing compared to others... Omg. First I was a little disappointed, but then I realized that my rank is the same as them, even though I only destroyed 25% of the ships like them.


So this made me think, and here comes the question...

If combat is supposed to be honorable then why are the players that have most killes at the top... Shouldn't the players with the best average xp for each fight be at the top?

The only reason I walked this path of efficiency was because I have many pages written down with how to reach max xp with 1 fuel. Without shields I can't reach the xp average amount I could with the option of being able to use a matrix.

Studying my enemy I can find and defeat the dark red enemy that looks scary but shoots weak and dies fast. Lots of research though I admit...

So why are so many fighting without shields? The cost? Or is it because they want to have the most killes mass destroying the weak dark green enemies? Or is it the IP investment that is saved if choosing not to use shields?

Please don't all get me a wrong, I like to question things, and I like it to be constructive and productive. I find I can reach 50% more xp by using shields, and with the option to use a matrix.
Please comment why you belive that it's better to play without, or with shields, so I can learn more from your point of view.

I need a new ship, and your replys will help me choose. Tnx all. :)
Golden Ribblez spotted studying helioseismology, with defrosted Fish Tacos eating Hilton, on Messor.
5hortpants
CE Official Supporter
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:37 pm

Re: Mass destruction

Post by 5hortpants »

A pilot after my own heart!!

XP and credit bounties seem to be based on the "threat" rating of the ship you are engaging. The system calculates the threat based on the relative shielding of the two ships. For some great reading on this, check out http://docs.core-exiles.co.uk/index.php ... eld_Debate

Personally, I've been working on the premise that the way to earn the best XP bounty is to increase firepower as much as possible while DECREASING shielding (hull, armour, and shielding) as much as possible. The best I've been able to achieve so far is an average of 720 XP per tick of fuel (that's taking on ships that pay out 2000 to 3000 XP each, at 3 ticks of fuel per encounter.)

I can't wait to see what other players have to say, though. Its a fascinating process trying to gain the most per fight, while avoiding the wretched HULL BREACH as much as possible!
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alumoi
CE Official Supporter
Posts: 287
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:47 pm

Re: Mass destruction

Post by alumoi »

As a sligthly successful hunter, fighting without any kind of shield equipped is a must, as I can attack more type (class) of ships without changing my ship.
Case study: Nebula LB1
1. shield equipped: I can not attack Hauler, Industrial Barge, Hunted, Rogue, Bounty Hunter, Pirate, Raider, Renegade, Unredeemed... and the list goes on.
2. shield unequipped: I can not always attack Renegade and Bounty Hunter.
Of course all bets are off and shield are up for alien hunting.
pikolinianita
Posts: 862
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:36 pm
Location: Quantum Chicken Caravanserai, Umbari, Sphere

Re: Mass destruction

Post by pikolinianita »

1) How do you know someone don't use Shields, never ever?

2) Why do you fight?
For XP - Well, Shields could be useful.
For Loot - better choose weaker targets,to save cr and precious Loot Re-rolls. And save IP.

3) Game not measure average XP per kill, sorry. At least it is not visible to players. more, it could depend on your Guild "skills".

4) Hunbaba did study long, long time ago. Threat rating = Hull + Armour + Shields + Gun (average dmg). XP you get is modified somehow by your Threat, the lower your threat rating the higher the rewars is. On the other hand, combat capability is closer to (Hull + Armour + Shield) * Gun. so you want biggest gun/low HP and want your enemy have weak gun/huge HP.

5) Which leads to conclusion: with modern, high level PM ships (with a lot of hull and armour) Shield is a luxury. Which is not true for low/medium level players.
SilverSun
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:59 pm

Re: Mass destruction

Post by SilverSun »

Tnx for the answers. I understand now.
Very cool. :)

5hortpants, I glad to see I'm not the only one trying to maximize my xp with each fuel spent. Using a matrix or at least having the option to use a matrix I can bring my average xp for each fuel spent higher then 1000xp for each fuel spent. Because the matrix doesn't actually effect the xp output. And because I can safely risk to choose a wider range of enemies being able to select a much stronger enemy without having to spend that 1 fuel on a rescan.

Alumoi, thank you for your answer, you showed me that many players are actually hunting to find a specific enemy that drops a certain loot. So this means that a ship with high armor/hull might just be a disadvantage to me one day when xp becomes less interesting then loot.

Piko, you put it all together in words to make me grasp it, lol. Tnx for that. I come to the conclusion that it's possibly not the right moment to get a new ship. I will wait for another bit until I can get a better gun and can start using Augment platings and system boosters.
What about those player made ships, can they give any skill bonuses like the VP ships?
Golden Ribblez spotted studying helioseismology, with defrosted Fish Tacos eating Hilton, on Messor.
pikolinianita
Posts: 862
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:36 pm
Location: Quantum Chicken Caravanserai, Umbari, Sphere

Re: Mass destruction

Post by pikolinianita »

Yes, PM ships gives bonuses to all non-alien skills. below is calculator, you can check stats of given design :)

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1095&p=3622
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Hunbaba
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: Mass destruction

Post by Hunbaba »

A lot could be written on this topic, but i will only add a couple things.

Combat used to be a bit different when i was doing the same- trying to get the maximum out of combat. Back then you wanted to have a large shield and just enough armour and hull to compensate shield penetrators. Reason was that repairing armour and hull was more expensive as refreshing shields using shield EBKs. Then Midas Devices were introduced and suddenly shield was the expensive one to repair. Shield however still had one advantage. You could attack stronger enemies and in case fight went the other way, Matrix could be used to compensate. With armour and hull only, such option is not available.

Fuel also was a much, much more valuable resource as it is now, thus effort getting most out of each unit could quickly turn into a science :P. No fuel depots, smaller engines, smaller onboard fuel storages.

I loved doing combat as it was the most complex part of the game. This in return made it possible to be very creative doing it.

One way to further increase xp per fuel (assuming the art of balancing own HP and gun damage against most suitable opponents for current level is perfected), is to take combat missions. VP is most suitable for this as you can find Gal Fed and Verec Per combat offices there. Best is to have both in the same system as you fight in - Angusti for example. Number of combat missions that can be taken at the sime time goes up with the rank in respective faction. Top for Gal Fed is 7 different combat missions at the same time, 6 for Verec Per. It also takes some time to make most of it as you need to find contracts for suitable ships and also make sure those ships are showing up frequently on combat scanners. Thats mostly for those combat players that keep running out of fuel. If there is more fuel available as it can be spent doing combat, combat missions are better ignored.
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