Missiles

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SilverSun
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:59 pm

Missiles

Post by SilverSun »

Hi all :)

I'm a little frustrated about the option to use missiles.
Missiles that are interesting for me require a skill that is completely out of all relation to other skills.
Also the cost to craft your own missiles is extreme and the second point that makes the option of using a missile completely silly I find. :roll:

I would like to have the tactical choice during combat... But as it is, I don't see any advantage.

Is anyone actually using missiles?

If yes, at what situation do you think that using a missile instead of your primary weapon is worth the cost and all the invested IPs.
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Hunbaba
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Re: Missiles

Post by Hunbaba »

There are some, but very rare ships that have huge shields but little in a way of hull and armour. Though I know of only one such. Using missiles might be cost effective, but it is hard to find it and there are plenty of things out there that are much better using a gun on.

Missiles were also useful in Expanse back when refreshing shields wasnt tied to action points. Aliens loved refreshing shields and it was frustrating losing a fight when it was pretty much dead, but kept refresging shileds faster as you could take them down, lobbing a missile at you every other round... a shield penetrator came in handy in such case even though they often missed.

Today i see no real (efficient) way of using them. They work fine, you get a lot of different tactical options using them, but sadly they are cost inefficient and ineffective compared to guns.
SilverSun
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Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:59 pm

Re: Missiles

Post by SilverSun »

Tnx for the answer. :)
What a pity that the CE missiles are so weak...at least the missiles we players can use. Missiles that our enemies fire at us are indeed very good missiles.
At least the relation to the power of their primary weapon is balanced.
Golden Ribblez spotted studying helioseismology, with defrosted Fish Tacos eating Hilton, on Messor.
SilverSun
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:59 pm

Re: Missiles

Post by SilverSun »

To integrate missiles into the game (again) maybe we would need new missile launchers. :)

Maybe something like:

Launcher 1 = player lvl 25 = +50% missile damage
Launcher 2 = player lvl 50 = +100% missiles damage
Launcher 3 = lvl 75 = 150%
Launcher 4 = lvl100= 200%
And so on...

Something like that? Too strong?

... the demand of missiles would be good for game economy and bring more demand to the GBM. :))
Golden Ribblez spotted studying helioseismology, with defrosted Fish Tacos eating Hilton, on Messor.
SilverSun
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Re: Missiles

Post by SilverSun »

Input guys/ladies... Are you content with the current situation?...

A missile Launcher is a ship that is weak on armor but has massive firepower.

The captain of a missile Launcher is not only a chicken, but also a great tacticiean. The balance is worth the thought.

Please comment on this subject, to help CE grow in realism.
Golden Ribblez spotted studying helioseismology, with defrosted Fish Tacos eating Hilton, on Messor.
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Darakhoranon
CE Official Supporter
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Re: Missiles

Post by Darakhoranon »

Bad idea. VERY BAD idea, Silver. CE combat relies too much on pure chance for that to work. Your skills have very little (really noticable) effect on your actual combat ability. The biggest gun wins, NOT the best gunner. Combined with the severly limited options you have during combat, there's not much you can actually do concerning 'tactics'. So a ship specialised for missile combat (even ignoring the ridiculous price tag for a moment) wouldn't make much sense.
The way I see it, missiles would have to be AT LEAST as strong as the things those annoying aliens throw at us in Expanse. Don't forget, a missile may very well MISS (it's in the name, after all... ;-) ), making 'missile combat' incredibly expensive - and suicidal if your ship couldn't withstand the enemy's massive return fire. A good gun doesn't do that much less damage compared to a missile but doesn't cost you a fortune with each shot (if this was Final Fantasy, I could accept the notion that throwing money at the enemy was a valid 'strategy', of course...).

Maybe missiles could work similar to combat drones, though - you install a launcher (either using one of the weapon slots - the second one is pointless anyway unless you're hunting AI ships - or by changing the missile launcher into a special or pod) and when you activate it during combat (costing one of your APs of course), it starts throwing missiles at the enemy. Each missile we have now could be good for one combat, i.e. basically be turned into ammunition, with each combat with an active launcher costing one 'stack'.
That way, missiles would become at least somewhat useful again (since they'd offer a little ADDITIONAL firepower), the price tag would probably be okay again (since a single 'missile' would last you the whole combat), and the basic system would be the very similar to the drones (a CHANCE of extra damage and we all know that drones do work fine).
With great power comes the great realization that you can have just as much fun simply annoying each other.
SilverSun
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Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:59 pm

Re: Missiles

Post by SilverSun »

Hehe.. Very cool thought.
Like a "machine-gun-missile-launcher"... Uh that would be really fun to activate. Certainly.
I like the idea... Can I install 2 at once? :)
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pikolinianita
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Re: Missiles

Post by pikolinianita »

SilverSun wrote:To integrate missiles into the game (again) maybe we would need new missile launchers. :)

Maybe something like:

Launcher 1 = player lvl 25 = +50% missile damage
Launcher 2 = player lvl 50 = +100% missiles damage
Launcher 3 = lvl 75 = 150%
Launcher 4 = lvl100= 200%
And so on...

Something like that? Too strong?

... the demand of missiles would be good for game economy and bring more demand to the GBM. :))
Best missile atm is for level 70, and it gives 3x 450 = 1350, while level 71 Terran Verminator gives 960 on average, plus bonus discharges. Not big difference. On the other hand, Shield/armour piercing for lvl 70 gives only 425, but are 2x cheaper in cr and IP. It could be choice for dedicated Combat player. So improved launchers should appear around level 100, and keep relative gun/missile damage constant.
SilverSun
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Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:59 pm

Re: Missiles

Post by SilverSun »

Tnx for your input Pikoli, :)
You really unleashed a brainstorm there. Lol

The soul collector missiles you are talking about are actually the only missiles that can keep up with the current guns at each lvl. But NOT because of their total damage output, actually only because of the damage they inflict on the enemy hull. A missile that would bypass shield and armor would have a greater tactical advantage then a 3 way soul collector cause it probably would be cheaper.
Sadly the soul collector is dependent on access to alien resources, which makes them rare and very expensive.

The hitpoints of the ships that I engage now are mostly divided in 33% shield/armor/hull.

So as a conclusion of all this thinking I must say that for me to use a missile, it's going to have to be stronger then my gun, because it costs cash to build or buy.

So if we take an enemy with 10000 hitpoints, and a gun at 1000 damage shot. Then we need 10 shots without missing to defeat him. We Are willing to spend cash on missiles that are MORE efficient then our cheap primary weapon. Then the missiles should be.

Standard AT LEAST 1100 (9 shots)
Bypass shield/armor AT LEAST 850 (8 shots)
3 way damage AT Least 500 (7 shots)

Those are interesting missiles that would certainly motivate me to spend IPs on the skill missile. :)

110%, 85%, 50% of the best available gun at each lvl? :)
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Rexx Shredd
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Re: Missiles

Post by Rexx Shredd »

Missiles give me a lot more "fun" flexibility/versatility in tactics as opposed to just hitting "Fire" ad nauseum.......and there are occasional targets, especially in Expanse, where using my Soul Collectors (PM 3 ways), in conjunction with the gun, is optimal There is also a few ships that have a huge shield and very thin hull and armor where I find missiles optimal...However, the difference isnt so great that you need to rush out and get missiles and If youve never used them, you wont miss them, but I enjoy them

If given a choice, Id rather not see Missiles tweaked (*see below) but, instead, seeing enemy ship types tweaked to reflect weapon choice, some where it would be blatantly obvious to use missiles ( even larger shield/thinner armor or Re-Gen ships that can constantly regen Shield/Armor as two possible examples).....

*The only three Missiles I would add is an (1)EM Missile: does minimal damage but has a 75% chance to add a debuff to the target that causes it to Miss Two turns.....and Id like to see a version of that added for RAID combat (Has a lower probability rating but, if debuff successful, RAID will miss two turns to fire as well as postpone its Regen (If a guy is in a RAID party, this could be his job to keep lobbing EMs at the RAID so the heavy damage dealers can whittle her down) ... The other Missiles I would add are for RAIDS only: one is a (2) "Graiviton" Three Way designed for RAIDS. For Final Fantasy fans that remember the "Gravity" spell, this Missile does damage by Percentages (therefore it can never kill) but keeps hitting to knock percentages off...In Final Fantasy, this was 50% each time......I think in CE, a Missile like this should be 5%-15%...... the (3) third Missile I would add would also be for RAID combat, a HUGE Thermonuclear weapon that can do massive amounts of damage. Problem is, it has a 2-3% probability of working, so ~98% of them will be duds (so the guy in the RAID party will constantly lob these at the RAID, doing no damage until he gets that one that practically annhilates RAID. yes, this missile can kill)...In the interest of game balance, the above should all require high IP in Missile Tech

I should also add that women that are familiar with missiles often see me in the club and say, "Hey, Rexx, is that a Polar Penetrator in your pants?"
ooo la la
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